guild wars 2 mystic salvage kit. Chest of Black Lion Goods is a fractal reward. guild wars 2 mystic salvage kit

 
 Chest of Black Lion Goods is a fractal rewardguild wars 2 mystic salvage kit  Silver fed is 60 copper a use, so it's basically

. . 19986, 64195, 67283. ago. His attendant, Miyani, found next to the Mystic Forge. Use Mystic salvage kit for cheap rares and exotics. 200 Pile of Crystalline Dust. the rest of the infinite kits are too situational to justify the buy unless you have gems to burn i think. I do own a Copper-Fed Salvageomatic. 3. Learn how to craft and use the Mystic Salvage Kit, a rare consumable that can salvage crafting materials and upgrades from items and equipment. Early on, the blue kits from the vendors will be your best return on investment for the cost. So using the mystic / silver fed on rare+ items gives you a better chance of getting a potentially worthwhile upgrade off of it. I heard that Runecrafter's Salvage-o-Matic can't drop Glob of Ectoplasm, is that true?No, but the. . Dec 9, 2022 @ 11:08am Surplus items I can't find buyer So many of these surplus items in the bank that I do not need BUT I can't find any merchants that would buy them. Keeps your inventory from filling up with junk sigils/runes. You can't use research salvage kits on ascended gear drops like from raids. Posted March 30, 2022. or, when you dont already have copper/silver fed, make mystic salvage kits. Maya_Hett. E. I got a precursor not long ago by opening all my bags, some people advice. Salvaging ascended rings will also grant. Ascended Salvage Kit is a salvage kit used to salvage ascended equipment. Cost per use: 60. By Illconceived Was Na. Just made 2 mystic salvage kits, the problem is the stack (mystic forge stones) is changed as you make things. This page is for recording the items salvaged from Discarded Garment. Xiahou Mao, True Hero of the Three Kingdoms! cpg2 9 years ago #7. It functions slightly differently compared to other crafting stations, as all its recipes are unlocked automatically and not viewable in-game. 3582 September 16, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion. ( Kryta) Services. 2 3 Mystic Salvage Kit: Lief Bombard 100 182 661 68 1 4 Mystic Salvage Kit: 176. This means you need a lot of free inventory space. Guild Wars 2 Discussion ; Salvage kits Salvage kits. 2 ecto per rare on average with a yellow kit. Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure – Expansion Announcement r/Guildwars2 • I'm working on a video series that covers basic builds and rotations for World vs. To make a Mystic Salvage Kit, throw the following into the Mystic Forge: 1 Fine Salvage Kit; 1 Journeyman’s Salvage Kit; 1. Research Kit represents a special type of salvaging as it can be used as an alternative to other salvage types. Making Mystic Salvage Kits - a 250 use Master Salvage Kit. Posted March 9, 2021. The prices of the salvage materials are automatically updated and so the comparison should stay up-to-date. Master's Salvage Kit. 1 Crude Salvage Kits; 2 Basic Salvage Kits; 3 Fine Salvage Kits; 4 Journeyman's Salvage Kit; 5 Master's Salvage Kit Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. Fine Salvage Kit. It's a preference choice either way imo. plus 3 mystic shards. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). . Merchant. Let's assume that we have equal probability of getting 1, 2, or 3 ectos. Exotic < 68. Your average dust yield will be ~1. The number at the top of each shows how many uses they have. (we run every dungeon except, SE path 2, HoTW 2-3 so we get a lot of tokens) 1. BUY-4373. Decreasing the cost of the Silver-fed further would make the name even less fitting, and I don't really want to suggest increasing the cost of anything so IMO the rarer mats chance of the silver-fed should be increased to 40%. At current gold-to-gem rate, the new 600-gem kit costs 225'54'00c. 8537 Members 10. I think mystic's are less than 1s per use, whereas 25 uses for a 300 gem blk is closer to 16s per use. 50% chance to get rarer materials. ago. Glob of Coagulated Mists Essence. Unless you somehow salvage so many yellows that you have to BUY mystic forge stones, you'll never break even with a Silver Salvage o Matic. wait for a discount cuz right now the price is. 1 x Journeyman's Salvage kit. If lower than price of ecto, salvage for ecto. amadiGW2 • 8 yr. GW2 how to create the Mystic Forge Salvage Kit in the Mystic Forge. Yeah, that's just a rumor. For rares, I check the TP, and if they're worth less than the price listed at GW2 Ecto, I salvage them with a mystic kit (same salvage rate as the master kit you can buy from vendors). When to use each infinite salvage kit? By Danikat. Salvage Kit Guide Video. Cost per use: 60— In-game description. 5 – Unidentified gear. Similarly, the Master Salvage Kits, Mystic Salvage Kits, and Silver-fed Salvage-o-Matic share the same salvage rates, while costing 61. Additional Character Slots (alts are really useful) The rest is entirely up to you. Silver-Fed and Runecrafter's Salvage-Kits, Are They Worth It…The Mystic Salvage Kit is used to salvage crafting materials from items and upgrades from equipment. Salvaging is one of five disposal options for Guild Wars 2 gear (either weapons or armor) you don’t want: Sell it on the GW2 Trading Post. It's been 5 years and the Mystic Salvage Kit literally still uses the same icon as the Crude Salvage Kit. Step 2: Salvage the gear with the rune crafters, a copper-fed salvage-o-matic, or an extractor in your inventory. Research Kit is a salvage kit that produces Research Notes currency and can be only used on items that were crafted and have the Research salvage type. Race Golem Level 80 Location. You probably don't want to buy many Master's salvage kits. If you're doing this then to you the MFS has a value north of a gold for the weapon it replaced. 198. 3. The prices of the salvage materials are automatically updated and so the comparison should stay up-to-date. This is both the blue and green unidentified gear stacks. Nearly twice the cost per salvage unit. ago. 25% chance of rarer materials. If you get the Mystic Forge Stones free it's the cheapest per use high quality salvage kit in the game. loot boxes: Just open and salvage blue+green with copper/crude. Veprovina. Sat down and started chucking rares. Yellow = open all, salvage all with Mystic Salvage Kit or Master's Salvage Kit, sell ectos for $$$. Salvaging the first upgrade component from dropped armor or weapons with two valuable upgrades. Exotics = Black Lion Salvage Kit. No. Mystic Forge Recipe to make it one special salvage kit (new gizmo) By Alessandre. You get more ecto from L68+ rares. I've read that using a mystic or master kit yeilds ~ 0. 875 (chance) - 62 (master's kit price per item) = 1592 = 15s 92cthere's then the additional chance of craftinng materials which can change. Because the mystic forge is in LA. It is my most prized possession. Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. Another secret revealed! Got a few messages asking about my salvage kits, so instead of just telling you, I thought I'd. It is a great tool that can give some really amazing weapons and armor when used. It has a total of 20. We desperately need a silver fed salvage-o-matic tool again. You need to collect aspected energy from around Tyria to power the armor. (The Bard) My Third precursor drop came from mystic forge again, 2 days after I finished Twilight (~2k hours or so). But if you toss them into the mystic forge for a stat change, the result is considered crafted and. There's no source except mystic forge & the new recipe and requires the same base materials as Mesmer minor: brilliance x1, lucent x1. Game Discussion. kalamari__. Salvage kits come from "merchants". 5 copper, and 60 copper, respectively, per salvage (assuming the Mystic Forge Stones needed to make the Mystic Salvage Kits have no gold value). It's the same as a Master kit, but it's cheaper per salvage and has 250 charges. Silverwastes Shovels, boosters I still never remember to use, sunken treasure chest keys, 3x infinite gathering tools. 2. Guild Wars 2 Discussion ; Salvage kits Salvage kits. Technically - you did buy 53 salvage kits. No it isn't. 5 copper is huge. The difference in on use-cost between the Silver-fed kit and the Copper-fed kit was understandable, as the later has mutch lower salvage rates (likely its purpose is to. You can find these exotics easily by using the. Lily of the Elon pass, mystic salvage kit, black lion kit. you can still use them, just use the non-armory version of your duplicate heavy armor on one of your characters. 6473. I usually identify 4 unidentified gear and put them in the forge. If you want to use the spreadsheet to. TerribleTransit. Acquisition[ edit] Salvaging high level exotic gear yields between 0 and 3 Globs of Dark Matter. Theres also an effort to sink surplus materials during festivals, which can be made into something more useful or rolling on a rare item (see 4 Winds). 3250 said:Hello,. Thread: How to make Mystic salvage kit (save money) Page 2 of 3. 5 dark matter per salvage while using the BL kit yields about ~1. 250 Mystic Coins. 1 Break-even point for purchasing gems with coins 3 Need to start with full kits? 4 Replacement? 4. Item Rarity Ingredients Bat Wing: Exotic: 4 Tattered Bat. 80% chance of salvaging upgrades . Kit quality: higher quality kits produce ecto at a higher rate. personally i normally open 4 unidentified blues and throw em in, since that costs like. Find out how to get mystic forge. Open all master, salvage master with. For example, all items found within Deer Chests have a chance to salvage into Deer Tokens. 25% chance of rarer materials. Personally, since I have an excess of Mystic Forge Stones and don't play the most loot intesive stuff, I've switched to using Mystic Salvage Kit (equivalent to Master's/Silver-fed) on Masterwork as well. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. When salvaging, I use basic kits for "salvage only" mats, with Rares 68+, I use a Master, Black Lion, or Mystic salvage kit for the ectos. 25% chance of rarer materials. Now I can tell my classes you can use maths to make more money in games and point them to this post! Thanks for sharing :DRewarded as part of the achievement rewards for reaching certain milestones of achievement points. ilkhan2016 • 7 mo. Unidentified gear is generally better to open it, especially if you have salvage-o-matics. Players Helping Players. For exotics, just use your Master/Mystic kit unless it has a really good rune/sigil. Having 2x the chance of rarer mats at 2x the cost makes. 8. 2 Gift of Dust. I'm not sure why you think this is unique. Master's Salvage Kit and equivalents (Silver Fed, Mystic) are the go-to for lvl 68 rares and exotics whose rune you don't want, since these can produce ectoplasm, which is a. The Mystic Salvage Kit is used to salvage crafting materials from items and upgrades from equipment. . Mystic Coin/Armor in bulk 2. Chattering Skull (x7) Masterwork: 1 Trick-or-Treat Bag 1 Research Kit 5 Nougat Center 5 Plastic Fangs. Mystic Salvage Kit 3x Mystic Forge Stone. If L68+, salvage with using silver-fed or Mystic kits (or Master's Kit). you can gamble with them in the MF for pres. If you don't have the silver fed salvage-o-matic then your best use is to make the mystic salvage kit. . Source. Followers 0. ago. Jump to content. 3. 6389 said. AwakenOne2010. 150 gems for 3 stones to craft a mystic forge kit is ~50 gold, or about 20 silver per use. It was Dusk. 25% chance of rarer materials. The advantage of the BLSK is that it has a 100% return rate, so that's what you use when the item has a valuable upgrade you want to extract and sell. Step 4: Salvage rares with a silver-fed salvage-o-matic or extract. The Copper Cost for Mystic Salvage Kits assumes you used Mystic Stones you already have and didn't buy the Mystic Stones from the Gem Store. If you get any free basic (white) salvage kits, those are fine too but if you're buying from a vendor, blue are the way to go. For rare armors/trinkets, sell the ones that are more expensive than ectos and salvage the ones that are cheaper. . Vial of Condensed Mists Essence. By Dark Skeeve. We would then sell those materials to other players, removing 15% of their value in gold from the economy on top of the 1 gold we would remove from the economy by purchasing ascended salvage kits. It has 250 uses and the same effectiveness as a Master's Salvage Kit or Silver-Fed. Guild Wars 2 MMORPG Role-playing video game MMO Gaming comments sorted by. To salvage items containing Superior Runes/Sigils before the update, and be guaranteed to obtain those, one either had to use an Extractor or a Black Lion Salvage Kit. . If you've been playing the game for any length of time more than 6. I played for 7 years before I realised it was a thing -. The SFSoM is convenient because you will never again need to buy or transmute another salvage kit in your entire life, so no more side trips to the merchant or ports back to town to buy salvage kits. For salvaging ectos for dust, using silverfed/Mystic salvage kits are always the best. 2193 said:I might suggest a two fold approach: farm world bosses, salvage their rares and exotics, and either sell the ecto or salvage it for Dust. By B O N K. Guild Wars 2 Discussion ; Black Lion Salvage Kits Black Lion Salvage Kits. 3 rares or exotics plus one MF stone. Once 80, spend your Mystic Stones from. Both of which are used in crafting ascended and legendary weapons and armor. 85 with those and it's a steep drop off using other kits. 250 uses also end up being a lot in practice, considering how few yellows and oranges. 25 ecto/rare:I salvaged 25,000 rune/sigil with mystic salvage kits so you dont have to. maximum cost per 100 is therefore 1 27 36 divided by 1. Salvage Ectoplasm with Mystic kits or Silver-Fed. Blue and Green = open all, salvage all with Copper-Fed Salvage-o-Matic, if you don't have it then Journeyman's Salvage Kit, keep the mats for crafting or sell for some $$$. For the most part, what MikeG. • 6 yr. Black lion if you want to extract the rune. Guild Wars 2 MMORPG Role-playing video game MMO Gaming comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment. 15 * 0. While both the gem store description and the actual in game description are both off, it DOES recover upgrades. I nevertheless frequently get rares out of greens though. 3x Mystic Forge Stone. 875 ecto/salvage. If you want to use the spreadsheet to. ago. Jx25 cost 8s at 60% chance of salvage upgrades. Caveat lector . Just a Side note, while you will eventually make your money back on the copper fed and runecrafter's kit, you will never make it back with the silverfed kit. tl;dr Always ID first. Can you tell I'm working on finishing my legendary armor?I remember back a long while ago you could go to any advanced crafting trainer and buy research kits (with Karma) needed to create mystic research kits from the mystic forge. The difference between the use of Master Kits, Mystic Salvage Kits, or Silver-Fed, for the purposes of salvaging our rares and/or maybe exotics. 255: 325 1081 1883 167 16 9 Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic: Daddicus 1500 2799 10933 692 65 35 Mystic Salvage Kit: BryghtShadow 250 454 1802 120 11 7 Mystic Salvage Kit: Fatclap: 750 1391 5355 371 32 8 Mystic Salvage Kit: 67. 3 x Mystic Forge Stone. When you get to 80, depending on the price of ectos it is sometimes more profitable to Mystic Forge greens and then salvage the rares for ectos. Output qty. Guild Wars 2 Discussion ; Salvage kits new option "Salvage Runes and sigils" Salvage kits new option "Salvage Runes and sigils" By totaloverride. If they make a change that allows free mystic stones to be exchanged for equivalent value gemstore items then that will need to be accounted for as a loss of sales in their books, as those unwanted mystic stones are being exchanged for wanted other gemstore items. Fine Salvage Kit. tl;dr. For exotics, just use your Master/Mystic kit unless it has a really good rune/sigil. If you move from Silver-fed to Runecrafter's for Green gear, you go from 75c average to 1'39c average return from salvage; that's 64c more per salvage. . I had to try it out. 25% chance of rarer materials. Put into the mystic forge and you get a 250 stack of mystic salvage kits. 3. Gaming Browse all gaming GW2 how to create the Mystic Forge Salvage Kit in the Mystic Forge. + + + = Min Max . Its overall more productive to salvage and process those materials (like mithrilium, spiritwood sap, or Mystic Curios) for later use, and sit on the excess for a price spike to sell on. Upgrade salvaging. It has the same chance to recover upgrades or get rarer materials as the Silver Fed Salvage-O-Matic. And they can buy a salvage kit in game from a merchant and not spend money they don't have, or farm gold and ruin the game for themselves. Mystic Forge Stones and one of each of the salvage kits. Identify yellows, sell on TP OR identify, salvage with mystic kit or silver fed* *If you have excess mystic forge stones laying around mystic kits are about 1/6th the cost of. • 2 mo. O. It has 250 uses and the same effectiveness as a Master's Salvage Kit or Silver-Fed Salvage-o-Matic . 100 Totem. Silverwastes farming, your loot is mostly gear, mostly masterwork, and champ bags, which you'd keep a "bag opener" to manage (L53 for example). Input the number of Salvageable Twisted Watchwork Scraps you salvaged, the type of salvage kit you used, and the number of materials you received. i bought the ascended salvage kit with gold and fractal relics. Mystic Salvage Kit: Double-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. Now, It's only available from Achievement (Point progression) and Fractal random drops - this means some players will likely get the salvage kit less than how they could get it easily. ) (Also, they will prolly nerf the karma shit soon so better do it. Mystic Coin/Other. The second tab shows the actual break down of values. Step 3: If you choose to extract it, compare the value of salvaging with rune crafters versus using a copper-fed salvage-o-matic vendor, or explore other options. When salvaging rares, Silver-fed is 7. estimated results from directly salvaging one hundred of each rarity. (Original Post from January)tl;dr Rares with upgrades that drops ectos (non-Elonian, L68+): Mystic (Silver-Fed & Master are close in val. Your average dust yield will be ~1. 85 with those and it's a steep drop off using other kits. 8 dust per ecto, which is still worth less than one glob, but not actually by much, usually less than a 15% loss in value, which would be lost anyway if selling. For crafters or salvagers looking for ways to get the most bang from your Guild Wars 2 time, here’s an interesting item to consider: Mystic Salvage Kits. For any other need an average player should have enough BL salvage kits lying around (from daily login rewards for example), making any other kind of salvage-matic useless or obsolete. Gift of Bones. After playing 5,696 hours and salvaging 86,955 items with every exotic drop being salvaged with a Black Lion Salvage Kit, I have 10 Black Lion Salvage Kits in my bank. To salvage an item, double-click on a salvage kit and then click on the item to be salvaged. For the signature field, type three tildes, "~~~", as it will automatically form a signature upon saving the page. Now, downvote this post because I'm. Not sure when this was changed (as I started playing after) but some time ago salvage kits were changed so that upgrades are salvaged unless you have a black lion salvage kit. ReplyDouble-click to salvage crafting materials from an item in your inventory. Arenanet could add a diverse range of carefully chosen materials to the salvage pool in order to reward the player for salvaging the box. I am a level 66 noob. CryptoWe would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Your calculation ignores the fact that mystic stones are used to. It's . Mystic Forge. It gives you the highest probability of recovering that valuable sigil/rune. Black lion if you want to extract the rune. com] recipe for Mystic Salvage Kits is as follows: 3 Mystic Forge. Salvaging rares with a Mystic Salvage Kit gives me on average one ecto each, which I sell for 23 silver. Use them on Exotics too, or dump them in the mystic toilet. buy 3 focus with dungeon tokens, put 1 mystic stone, that's on precursor try. Save the mystic salvage kit uses for rare+ gear, and use. TL;DR - With the upcoming (tomorrow!) infinite salvage tools sale, I make crude assumptions on how to evaluate the profit of salvaging 1000 rare items with either of those, taking into account not only ectos but also upgrade salvaging. Input the number of Discarded Garment you salvaged, the type of salvage kit you used, and the number of materials you received. Considering ecto is 28-29s, that's 55% of the cost of one ecto. About Guild Wars 2 Wiki; Disclaimers; To smith heavy armor, you'll need to pair two. 250 Black Lion Commemorative Coin250 Mystic Coin250 Mystic Curio10 Mystic Tribute. If you were to buy the 10 Pack of Mystic Forge Stones, you save 10% on the stones, which would save you 15s on the three stones required. 44c/use cost of the Master's Kit; The Copper-Fed costs 3c per use, which is cheaper than the 3. The reason for that is they have a chance to drop globs of ectoplasm making the salvage worth it. But the convienience is god tier. It seems even with using mystic salvage kits to salvage a stack of ectos the return in Crystalline Dust is favourable enough to generally at least break even on the value of the. 23040. Share More sharing options. Calach_ • 7 yr. In Guild Wars 2 salvaging is the most crucial way to avoid a clogged. You can replace Silver-Fed with the Mystic Salvage Kit (which has 250 stacks). Not including the price of convenience, of course. If you have the need to salvage LOADS. But I do agree its kind of lame that one of the best salvage kits in the game just reuses the icon from the worst salvage kit in the game, and it certainly doesn't look "mystic". Personally Im saving them, and use them for the kits, after all, 250 charges is pretty good, and I also have copper-fed. I own a copper-fed one and I do all the identified blues and greens with it. 198. 89) - 0. I'm not sure how some of you are calculating the price, but it's actually 24c per charge. When you consider that 800 gems currently costs 59g 76s 00c, you'd have to use the Salvage kit 1,149,231 times in order to get your money's worth. Nvm. You get 250 uses instead of a master's 25, and it's much cheaper than buying 10 master's salvage kits. Recommended Posts. Basic Salvage Kits / Copper-Fed Salvage-O-Matic on any items without upgrades that are: Basic. Volatile Magic Gathering Tools. Gift of Claws. Or, using real numbers as of this post, assuming a mystic salvage kit and that mystic forge stones are "free": ((34. Silver fed salvage-o-matic has unlimited use and USED to cost 1 silver/use, now it costs about 60c/use. Through the Veil is here! LEARN MOREEvery achievement chest gives you like 10 stones, and some of us that have more than 10k AP have gotten a lot of these chests so we also got so many mystic forge stones that we don't know what to do with them. I can't remember what's in the last 2 slots, but it will be similar items. replace a fourth exotic weapon in the mystic forge with a stone and it counts as an exotic weapon of the same level as the other 3. — In-game description. Problem is, BLSalvage Kit takes gems to purchase, so I'm just using mystic for ecto salvaging, and black lion for the occasional time when i need to save a rune. 7k Karma + 1. It is manually submitted by random people who don't always treat data collection properly. of Swindlescrew's Salvage Kit Consortium Emporium and Warehouse! Thanks to an asura portal shipping error, I am now currently overstocked on Black Lion Salvage Kits and I am passing the savings on to you!That's a Mystic Salvage Kit, not a Black Lion Salvage Kit. 6084 Members. You need 3 stones, so that's 34. green: runecrafters. What items to use it on – Greens and higher rarity items, although its a personal choice if you want the Rune or basic materials. Hm, I salvage a lot less than this - maybe 1/2 stack of green unids and 50 rares/day on average and the odd exotic (basic kits on greens, mystic on yellow, and blsk on exotics), and I have between 150 and 350 of each of the symbols and charms. 5312 said: But the BL salvage kits give a considerably higher drop rate of dark matter and globs of ecto. ago. I'll try to find a source on that in a minute. Master's Salvage Kit is a salvage kit with 25 uses. [&AgEAWgAA] API. 100% chance of recovering upgrades (excluding infusions). Silverfed is better for rares for the extra 5% to get ectos. Posted October 31, 2017. And a mystic kit gives you 250 a stack. Silver-Fed uses 60 copper per use and is for yellows (and orange). I have a Mystic Salvage kit on every toon, and still have 230 mystic forge stones in the bank. Do that with 10+ BL kits and you'll have a stack of ecto for essentially no coin (just time & effort). 80%. Salvaging rares will bring in a lot of gold from auctions. — In-game description. Similarly, the Master Salvage Kits, Mystic Salvage Kits, and Silver-fed Salvage-o-Matic share the same salvage rates, while costing 61. Members; 9 Share; Posted. Copper-Fed uses 3 Copper per use and is for blues (and greens). Xiahou Mao, True Hero of the Three Kingdoms! cpg2 9 years ago #7. I have a large enough stash of Mystic Stones to make Mystic Salvage Kits until the game nears the end of its natural life span; I use these kits on identified yellows and even some oranges that would sell poorly on the tp (20-25 silver being my. By Tifa. orange: check rune/sigil price; if expensive, use a black lion kit; otherwise, silver-fed. Event chests in dungeons. 80% chance of recovering. Rune: 30c per use -> 20% rare mats, 100% chance to salvage the upgrade. So maybe it is better to just vendor it, and buy mats i need. Short term, if you can, get a copper-fed Salvage-o-matic. 9 charms/symbols & ~100 lucent motes. yellow: silver-fed. Now I have just put the salvage kit in the bank and switch to another character and grab it. 1 Master's Salvage. You need the following for the mystic salvage kit: 1 Fine Salvage Kit - 2 Silver coin 88 Copper coin - 252 Karma 1 Journeyman's Salvage Kit - 8 Silver coin - 700 Karma 1 Master's Salvage Kit - 15 Silver coin 36 Copper coin - 1,344 Karma. 6103 mentioned, different versions get 1, 2, or 3 rolls for matrices.